> -You say that by depending on Grace alone, we are saved because our works don't matter, but how would any good ever be accomplished if we don't have to do anything?

   We do not obey God because if we don’t he’s going to damn us, we obey because God’s love is irrationally unconditional to all who will believe that his love, grace, and sacrifice is enough to save them. Paul says that “no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.” (Romans 3:20) The law leads us to become aware of our sinful state, and thus our need for grace. I am such a sinful and imperfect person, but God loves me and is going to save me just because I believe in him! “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16) I’ll tell you, Jesus saves me if I believe in him is the best news I’ve ever heard. Paul goes on to say that “God’s kindness leads you to repentance” (Romans 2:4) As a believer in Jesus, I don’t do good things to save myself (I’m totally reliant of Jesus for that), I do good things and love others because Jesus has poured his unconditional love and grace on me and saved me. My works are merely a reasonable response to who God is. Realizing God’s unconditional love and grace is an immensely powerful thing to a believer. They know that God is not going to EVER let them down, he’s never going to flake on them. Even if you might be a total screw up in life, that the love and grace of Jesus is for sure going to save you, no matter what you’ve done or will do in the future, leads one to think, “Wow, God’s love is soooooo awesome!!!” You just want to love God back and love others too because God’s love is just so spectacular. If we do any good works, we’re only responding in a reasonable way to who God is.

>  How would people who can't help themselves and need our help ever receive it if we didn't ever have to do anything--hence our works would count for something, they would be necessary to better the lives of others that need our help.

   Works are necessary to bring about the things God needs and wants done, but if we are reliant partially on ourselves to get to heaven, then we really can’t put our whole trust in Jesus for our salvation, can we?! God gets his work done by first loving us.

>  You may feel that you couldn't do anything to save yourself when you were depressed, but don't you think that through counseling you were helped and if people didn't have to do anything, there would be no point in having counselors to help people who need the help and don't think they can do it on their own.  (Sound familiar? :)

   The goal the counselors had for many people in therapy was not to help give them some sort of motivation do things, their goal was to help them realize that no matter what they did or didn’t do, that it didn’t matter. Once they realized that and really felt that it didn’t matter, this gave them the freedom and liberation to do whatever they wanted to do, instead of feeling so awful and depressed because they couldn’t achieve everything others wanted them to do. Maybe they lied in bed all day, too depressed to even get up, go to class, dress well, or act “perfect” all the time. And when they finally felt no obligation to be everything that others wanted, then it gave them the freedom to be everything that really was inside them. From a Christian standpoint, God loves us in the same unconditional way -- to him it doesn’t matter what we do, he’s going to love us and save us anyway. That freedom liberates us. Paul speaks of this freedom to the Galatians, “You my brothers were called [by God] to be free, but do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.” (Galatians 5:13) This is not free agency he’s talking about here -- he’s talking about Jesus setting us free. God’s grace liberates us from obligations. Here, Paul acknowledges that God sets us free, and then he encourages us to love each other as God does -- we aren’t under any obligation to, for Jesus has already set us free.

> -You said that Mormons are selfish because they do things so they can get into Heaven. . . . . Do you really believe that they are working out of selfishness? Again, I am sorry if this sounds like an attack, I honestly don't mean for it to, I just want you to think about what I am asking you because I want to understand your point of view.

   Yes, Mormons are working many times because of feelings of selfishness, or guilt, or of obligation. It is not because Jesus has set them free and because his love is so amazing to them, that they almost can’t help but do good and love others in response to his love. I know you haven’t been to the temple, but the ceremonies within it are all about putting you under obligation and immense cursings and condemnations if you fail to obey. Love and grace, at least it seemed to me, have little to do with Mormonism.

> -You said something about the Atonement being a gift and that Jesus bought our salvation through it and we shouldn't have to do anything to secure our salvation. . . . . I guess I am mainly saying that we have been given a gift that we can never repay but all that He asks in return is that we do our best to do what he wants and we will be taken care of.

   We don’t have to repay anything, Jesus has already paid for it all. Jesus says he doesn’t care what you’ve done or will do, believe in him and be saved. There really isn’t any greater love than that.

> I just wonder if some of the things you do or don't see as right or true in the Mormon church--do you really understand what you think is true or not, or do you not understand them enough to know exactly what is "expected" of you.

   I perfectly understand what would be expected of me if I was still a Mormon. I think you understand what is expected of you right now too. Though Jesus was said to be a wine bibber (that’s someone who drinks wine a lot). Also... “For John [the Baptist] came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’” (Matt 11:18-19) Jesus hung out with everyone that nobody else would. “Know that man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ....” (Galatians 2:16) “You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Galatians 5:4) It is not about doing things to save yourself, it’s about relying only on the sacrifice of Jesus’ to save you. The law is to inform us of our need for Jesus. (Romans 3:20) We respond to him with love by loving ourselves, others, and God, because he has loved us first, and we have come to understand that love in our lives.

> Please don't think I am trying to criticize your point of view or say you don't understand what you're criticizing, I don't even understand it all.  I just wonder if you really do understand what you see as wrong with the Mormon church. I am sure there are many who don't understand a lot of things but they are still trying.  Well, as I said, I do still believe that every one is entitled to their beliefs, I just hope that you will be happy with your decision and not leave because you don't understand some things any more than people--like me, already confused but not ignoring things I have been taught.

   I believe that understanding is the most important thing about the good news of Jesus. If we don’t understand, how can we rejoice in him? I do not regret leaving Mormonism either, I am just glad to worship God among people that believe in the same way I do.

July 9, 2002